pauamma: Cartooney crab wearing hot pink and acid green facemask holding drink with straw (Default)
[personal profile] pauamma
Can someone more fluent in Russian than me confirm that some of the text in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morphological_typology#/media/File:Beriyn_Poliklinika,_S%C3%B6l%C6%B6a-%C4%A0ala.jpg (specifically, below the caduceus and above the last line) is actually Russian, not Chechen? I want to add an alt= and correct the caption if needed.
pauamma: Cartooney crab wearing hot pink and acid green facemask holding drink with straw (Default)
[personal profile] pauamma
How would a language like Tamarian (central plot point spoiler) (from ST:TNG episode Darmok (spoilers ahoy) work?

It seems to be isolated (metaphorical) concepts-nouns and nothing but. There's no apparent way to express identity between two things or concepts no one has compared before, or describe one in terms of the other if no one has described things or concepts that way already. A Tamarian might be able to express that the sky on their home planet is whatever color it's supposed to be, maybe by saying "ancestors outside, looking up", but put one on Vulcan and they'd have no way that I can think of to tell others about the sky color there once back home.

Similarly but on a larger scale, "Banach and Tarski, their heads together" would say nothing about the ability to assemble two spheres using carefully shaped pieces of one, because any proof of a new theorem in mathematics is connecting concepts and logical relationships between them in a way no one has connected them before. No mathematics means no science and no engineering, thus no space travel.

Also, even if a child managed to learn a basic vocabulary from their parents (and nothing beyond a vocabulary, because there is nothing else in their language), they'd be unable to go beyond that by looking into a dictionary, because dictionaries can't exist. Likewise, no textbooks, hence no public education with one teacher instructing multiple students (even if you reduce teachers to walking, talking dictionaries, which is unrealistic, I think). One-on-one instruction by example, even if theoretically possible, doesn't scale.

Last, communicating new insights to others doesn't seem possible either. "Archimedes, running naked in the streets" might convey you had a stroke of insight about something previously unknown, but good luck sharing the specifics of your insight with others. So discussion and exchange of new ideas would seem to be out. I don't see how a language, a culture, and a society of sentient people can exist with those constraints on exchanging thoughts. That may work for a society of bees, but not for a society of sentient, self-aware beings capable of original thoughts and having to share them widely.

So what's going on there?

Two links

May. 13th, 2012 03:48 pm
steorra: Restaurant sign that says Palatal (linguistics)
[personal profile] steorra
Nepal's mystery language on the verge of extinction
Kusunda is a language isolate in Nepal. As far as I can tell from the article, it has two known fluent speakers: Gyani Maiya Sen, the 75-year-old speaker the article is largely about, and Kamala Khatri, who "left [Nepal] in search of a job"

Ancient language discovered
A clay tablet written in Assyrian cuneiform script has been discovered which contains evidence of an otherwise-unknown language. It has a list of women's names, a very few which can be recognized as coming from known languages, and the rest of which are not recognizably from any known language; it seems likely that they come from another language.
steorra: Restaurant sign that says Palatal (palatal)
[personal profile] steorra
Numerals of an otherwise-unknown Peruvian language were recently unearthed. They were written down in the early 1600s. It's not Quechua, though some numbers appear to be borrowed from Quechua or one of its relatives.

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